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De Havilland news agency's report on the Education & Skills Select Committee
Author: Kenneth Aitchison, Created 02/03/2007 08:56:10
de havilland news agency report on select committee
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Education Select Committee hears from trade unions on post-16 skills
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Type : DeHavilland Report - Parliamentary Committee
Date : Wed, 28 Feb 07
Analysis : MPs today heard of the importance of union learning representatives to improving the level of skills amongst workers.
Giving evidence to the Education and Skills Select Committee were:
At the start of the meeting, Ms Pickles explained that, without her, her colleagues would not access training at all, as Tesco provided no training other than that needed for the job. She stressed the benefits of getting groups of people to go to night classes.
Ms Smith said that the world of training was hard for ordinary workers to understand. Local sources of knowledge, such as union learning representatives, were very important in helping people navigate their way through the system, she told the committee.
She went on to say that the big driver for training was 'to get on at work', in terms of both pay and things like job satisfaction. Pay was however unlikely to be the key issue, she added.
Mr Aitchison said that his members looked at training to help professional development. He agreed that links into training were confused, but said that the system of learning reps was working well.
Ms Russell said that there was a huge choice of providers depending on where someone lived, but she warned that there were factors that affected the choices of individuals, such as the accessibility of information and childcare.
Mr Ritchie spoke of the importance of focussing on helping people become more employable.
Labour's Fiona Mactaggart opened the questioning by asking what it was that turned people on to wanting to go back to learning.
Ms Pickles said that some people had been sceptical when she had informed them about lifelong learning, but she explained that once people had got the confidence through going to a tasted course, they realised that they did need additional life skills. Going with a work colleague was the key, she said.
She went on to say that with the average income in retail just £10,000 a year there was no money available for training. She had however managed to get adult education to part fund some computer courses, she revealed.
She said that she felt Tesco would have provided training if the funding was put through employers by the Government.
Ms Smith told the committee that 'like recruited like', explaining that people like Ms Pickles were role models for their colleagues. She said that employers should be incentivised to get involved in training, highlighting the aims of the train to gain scheme.
In response to a question from Ms Mactaggart, Mr Aitchison said he wanted to work with employers in the archaeology sector to help them develop training. A new NVQ had been developed but the problem was the lack of funding that had been attracted to get people to take the qualification, he explained.
Moving on to talk about advice and guidance for young people, Ms Russell told Labour's David Chaytor that it depended on what course someone wanted to do. People wanted to know about course flexibility and how they would be treated by a provider, she said. She welcomed the reforms for the 14-19 age group.
She said that some people took advice from their parents, with the peer group also being important. It depended on the type of provision that someone was seeking, she suggested.
Mr Ritchie said that he had found it easy to talk to the person who was to teach him. Listening to the views of students gave you a feeling that there was a wide range of ways to access information, he said.
The committee went on to ask about on site learning with Labour's Gordon Marsden leading the questioning.
Ms Smith agreed with the importance of workplace centres, noting that her organisations worked with over 100 such organisations.
She added that unless there was a common venue used in a community, it would be the union learning reps that would have to 'ferret' the information out. It was often easier and more appropriate to have the learning on site, she said.
Learning and skills councils had an interest in getting learning out to where people were, but learners needed to respond too, she stated.
Ms Pickles said that in Scarborough, McCain's and the council had learning suites for their employees. She noted that Tesco did not even have the internet in stores for their workers.
Asked about online learning, Mr Aitchison said that this could be very appropriate for archaeologists. Linking evidence gathering to learning would be appropriate, he said.
If there could be a system whereby it could feed into the rewriting of PPG16 that would be 'fabulous', he added.
In response to a question on how many people were missing out on training, Ms Pickles said that online learning through Learn Direct had been very useful in helping those that could not get out to college.
Ms Smith said that in her experience there was rarely a poverty of aspiration once people took the initial step. The barriers were appropriateness of provision, getting the time and affordability, she suggested.
There were some groups in companies that did not train at all, that were missing out, she went on to say, adding that it was difficult for workers not in a union to access training.
She said that she would like to see an entitlement for some time off for training and a strengthening of union learning reps' rights.
Asked whether employers made good use of training, Ms Pickles said that those that had been on learning courses had put in for apprenticeships.
Towards the end of the meeting, Ms Smith told MPs that in her experience the FE sector had become much more proactive and flexible in forging links in recent years.
Labour MP Jeff Ennis asked what the Government should be doing to build on the success of union learning reps.
Ms Smith said that there was huge scope for development. She suggested that there could be a strengthening of the rights of reps and of the understanding that unions were being the voice of the employee.
Learning agreements were also important, for employers and unions to discuss how skills could be used, she added.
Union reps had 'breathed new life into union membership', Mr Aitchison said.
In response to a question on whether there could be a system that served the needs of both individuals and employers, Ms Russell said that a demand led system would allow the learners' needs and the employers' needs to come together. She stressed the need for there to be more dialogue.
There were real opportunities to make sure that every learner had some sort of influence over the type of learning that they were going to get, she said.
Mr Ritchie said that transferring customer service to the education system would boost the relationship between employers and colleges. There should also be more focus on the induction process, he suggested.
On the issue of learner accounts for level three qualifications, Mr Aitchison said that he had had limited direct experience, but he felt that there were almost exactly the type of thing that was needed.
Train to gain was a good and ambitious set of ideas, Ms Smith said, although she warned that there was a need to ensure that it did not become brokers just selling training to meet targets.
She said that she had worked with the LSC to ensure that brokers met unions as good practice. The Department for Education were sympathetic to this, she revealed.
Ms Smith said that she was interesting in bringing back training accounts, adding that she would like to see models tested that would enable a collective contract between the employer and the union.
Mr Sheerman asked why the tax payer should subsidise Tesco to do training.
The Government should look to ensure that Tesco did more to promote training, Ms Smith replied.
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